POLL: Do you want the US to succeed in Iraq?

Please take this quick poll so I can gauge (to satisfy my own curiosity) prevailing opinion on this site.

The poll is a simple Yes or No. I explain the idea behind it in the extended entry.

So far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong) Kos, like many left-ish bloggers, only highlights bad news from Iraq. Now, since at least the so-called "end of major combat operations," if not before, most news has, so far as I can tell, been bad. But there have also been some apparent victories, smaller civic triumphs-- trumpted elsewhere (mostly on right-leaning sites), but, so far as I can remember, not here.

This feeds into one of the more tired (and more offensive) critiques of Iraq war dissenters: that they do not want the US to win in Iraq. This is certainly not true in all cases. I opposed the Iraq War from the beginning, but I have also hoped it would go well from the beginning. I don't think US failure there is likely to bring about anything positive for the Iraqi people, the region or the world.

But maybe some here disagree. Maybe you think Iraqis will be better off if the US loses. Maybe you think victory would take longer and be more destructive than a quick loss, so you root for the latter. Maybe you think some kind of victory in Iraq will inspire even worse imperial adventures in the future. So, which is it? Do you want the US to win or lose? Please explain your vote if you have a moment. Edit: Some good points made below. This may be entirely the wrong question, and I welcome explanations of why this is so. I only made Yes and No available because I really am curious on a sort of gut level how people respond to this question. (And I figured too many would go for a third option to get a read on that.) Maybe a better poll question would have been: Should Kos post good news from Iraq? School openings, for instance, civic participation-- the kind of stuff trumpted by the hawks trying to find vindication in the rubble. I think reasonable people can disagree on that question, and it seems worth answering. A quick look at my past diaries should clear up the question as to whether I'm a Troll. I realize trolling wingnuts could vote "No" and then trumpet the results, but I don't think very many are paying attention for that to be an ethical concern. I mean, at best there will be a hundred or so votes, I imagine.

•  What it success?

  I have no idea what success in Iraq would look like.

  by Geonomist on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:16:26 PM PDT

  •  Exactly

    Where there is no goal, there can be no success.

    BTW, I thought the mission was accomplished in May of 2003.

    by Gearhead on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:53:04 PM PDT

    •  This poll is meaningless

      and I will not vote yes or no for this exact reason. Success at what? Bringing real democracy to Iraqis? Establishing a puppet regime so we can control the oil and U.S. corporations can exploit their resources? I would love to see real democracy for Iraqis. Do the neo-cons steering this ship of fools? I seriously doubt it. This administration has ZERO credibility on this, starting with their bogus rational for invasion in the first place and especially on whatever they claim their real goals are. Anyone who takes your ludicrous poll would be merely guessing as to what the fuck they're voting on.

      by miasmo on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:13:44 PM PDT

•  I voted <b>NO</b>

  Don't get me wrong.  This does not mean that I am against the troops, wish for anything bad to happen on anyone, etc.  

  I just want our government to learn (once again) that war should only be used as a last resort after every other effort has failed.  

  by egarratt on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:19:17 PM PDT

•  Trolling?

  Please don't put up garbage like this. The flying monkeys on the right would love for this poll to depict the blog community as not wanting the US to win the war. This smells of the work of some undercover NeoCon. DON'T ANSWER THIS POLL!

  by Picasso on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:22:20 PM PDT

•  US Victory

  I have voted No. I hope we don't succeed even though I have no idea what success or failure will look like.

  The reason I hope we fail is many-fold but the main reason is any "success" there would mean a license to try the same success elsewhere and death toll be damned. I want the vicious dog back in the kennel doing guard duty not running down the street biting everybody.
  

  by Kenyan on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:27:00 PM PDT

•  Succeed at what?

  unable to vote

  by Feanor on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:29:52 PM PDT

•  This is a HORRIBLE question

  The answer isn't whether we want them to, it's a question of whether they WILL.

  The only way Bush CAN succeed in Iraq --  if it's even still possible -- would be to wipe the slate clean, get allies on board, take the stamp of America AND Chistianity off this war. Things that George Bush can't do.

  Let alone the mistakes he makes. Focusing on guarding the oil instead of the borders. Not putting enough troops on the ground to prevent a feeling of lawlessness. Abu Gharib, tens of thousands of civilian deaths, and generals calling Islam "the devil" -- things that become recruitment slogans for terrorism.

  You totally missed the point.

  by danthrax on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:35:10 PM PDT

  •  Exactly

    This sort of "yes/no" only mindset is the sort of absolutism spouted as gospel truth by the right.

    I voted "yes" because I believe that a peaceful, stable, democratic Iraq (what would be considered a "success") is better than the alternative (civil war killing perhaps a million people, long term instability in the region, etc.) But the yes vote also has undesireable baggage - success in Iraq would mean vindication for Bush's insane, reckless, dangerous policies.

    by fwiffo on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:49:26 PM PDT

  •  It's too late

    You're totally right. At this point it's just a question of degree of failure. We've already blown it. Winfall for the terrorists, hundreds of billions wasted at a time when economics are a serious threat to our security, and the entire fucking world now hates our guts.

    by miasmo on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:21:19 PM PDT

•  What the hell is wrong with you people?

  I am a liberal. I oppose the war in Iraq. But we're are there now and though success seems unlikely, I couldn't imagine that anyone would want us to fail for political reasons. Shame on all of you who voted "no." Liberals have always thought that the country in which you're born is a matter of luck. That you would hope people suffer in iraq so our party can succedd here is a betrayal of liberalism. You've all lost the right to call yourselfs liberals and progressives. Henceforth, you shall be known soley as illiberal xenophobes.

  by skipper2379 on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:36:57 PM PDT

•  No, Both

  I don't want the US to win the war in Iraq, but neither do I want them to lose it. I don't want the insurgents to win, but I don't want the multinational corporations to win either. I don't want the Bush policies to be validated, but I don't want our troops or Iraqi civilians to suffer.

  Look, we have to get past this simple-minded conception that there's two easily defined opposites called "winning" and "losing" and there's only one way to win and that's to make the other side lose. It's not a game, it's life and it doesn't come with a scorecard.

  What I want is for the Iraqis to be left with, someday, a stable, functioning government with a popular mandate and adequate security and infrastructure for its citizens. I want them to have wise leaders and a compassionate and fair system of governance that doesn't rely on inflicting suffering on others in order to ensure prosperity for a few.

  And I want the same thing for us here in the US, someday.

  by Corax on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:38:05 PM PDT

•  Dumb question

  What is success?

  I would have wanted Kerry to succeed at what he would have attempted to accomplish.  What does Bush really hope to accomplish in Iraq?

  I want less death.  Where do I vote for that?

  by Obama08 on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:43:53 PM PDT

•  What is success?

  • Us getting out?
    
  • Creation of a Texas style free market kleptocracy, complete with stolen elections?
    
  • A nation state like Belgium?
    
  • A secular society?

  Tell me.

  by msaroff on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 12:52:06 PM PDT

•  This is one of those "Pariah" Issues

  Hard to face, hard to wrestle with the implications. Full of nuances. Wish I had time to comment. But I do recommend others to discuss it until I can get back. Definitely recommended.

  by The Messenger on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:18:14 PM PDT

•  For the record

  I voted "Yes, but" . . .

  by The Messenger on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:19:36 PM PDT

•  if you were a German

  in the 1940s, would you want your country to "win" in Leningrad? London? Paris?

  "oh, why YES, of course. I opposed going to war in the first place, but now that we're there...I support the troops..."

  I do not want troops to die, and I don't want us to "lose" by being their physically slaughtered. I do want us to "lose" by simply not being successful in imposing "our" will upon the middle east, in any corner, in any way. Thus, the best outcome would be some circumstance in which Bush was forced to withdraw, his tail between his legs.

  Powell's already planting disinfo about Iranian nukes, and I heard that USA today ran a story about "discovering" shipments of sarin from Iraq to Syria, thus planting the meme-seed that will lead to an attack there. "Victory" in Iraq would mean that we would soon be blowing Iranian and Syrian children to pieces as well.

  Interesting. This diary is quite similar to mine from a few days ago, where I answered this very question and more or less got bulldozed for it.

  by RabidNation on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:33:36 PM PDT

•  asdf

  Although I am afraid of "winning" in Iraq leading to further "adventures in Democracy" I am more afraid of what failure would mean.

  by Sylv on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:50:52 PM PDT

•  Success?

  What is success?

  I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation of who the goddamn enemy is!
  

  by Omar on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 01:55:38 PM PDT

•  Yes

  I want Bush's dream to come true.  I want Iraq to hold elections, I want the new government to take control of the country, and for their pro-business laws to effect stunning economic growth, leading to a democratic uprising in Iran, and the lynching of the mullacracy.

  It's all looks great on paper.  

  However, that boat has sailed, has it not?

  Right now, I hope we can have some kind of half-ass elections, negotiated with a guaranteed minimum Sunni Arab proportional representation, to take into account their reluctance and/or inability to fully participate in the vote.

  Then I hope that the vast majority of Iraqis, being satisified that they finally have some representation with a claim to legitimacy, will support a dramatic crackdown on lawlessness, by agreeing to a nationwide curfew, and a ban on transporting weapons.

  Hopefully, buttloads of Iraqis will sign up to be members of neighborhood watch posses, that will be organized through their local mosques and/or local representatives.

  But I just don't see this all happening according to plan.

  The bad guys are just too motivated, and they are terrorizing their own population into submission.

  I want us to win, but I am afraid we will not.

  by BooMan23 on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 02:03:49 PM PDT

•  US Success in Iraq

  is defined as pumping all the oil.

  by ben masel on Fri Nov 19, 2004 at 02:53:51 PM PDT